How can we improve CanPhoto.Net?

[andrewr]

I would like to take this opportunity to wish every member of CanPhoto.Net all the best for the holidays and a very Happy New Year!

Your ongoing support of our site is much appreciated and I'm happy to say that we had almost twice as many visitors in 2005 as we did in 2004. Last year we had 126,709 visitors, up from 77,780 in 2004. That's more than 10,000 visitors each and every month! Total pageviews for 2005 was almost 5 million!

Those numbers are good, but I want 2006 to be even better and I would like you to help me do it. I have a few new ideas for the site that I will be implementing in the New Year, but I would also like to know what you want to see on CanPhoto.Net.

What would make you visit our site more often? What kind of online tools and resources do you need to help you improve your photo business? How can we help you get more exposure for your business?

I really hope you can spare a few minutes to send me your feedback and suggestions. Instead of emailing me directly, please post your suggestions here to keep things organized.

Thanks for your time and I hope you have a great holiday season!

Andrew

[NewLight]

Hey there! *I'm not a regular contributor, just an occasional one ... but it's nice to know there's a site like this one. *Congratulations on doubling your traffic this past year, and best wishes with keeping it on the upswing!

I like the addition of a book section; there used to be a specialty photo book site a couple years back and I loved it, but it closed down (sigh). *Resources of that nature are helpful I feel, and I hope Amazon kicks some $ your way for it.

The discussion forums are great to have around, although I think you will find the majority of photographers are likely to come here when they have a question or problem but not just to visit. *Maybe I'm wrong on that one...

As a wedding photographer I'd love it if you were able to refer some clients my direction; of course that's what Google is for but I'm sure many photographers love the index you have and hope for business from it. *I personally would like to see your index divided with two bold links - one saying "FIND A PHOTOGRAPHER" and one which says "RESOURCES FOR PHOTOGRAPHERS" ... or something like that. *Simplify, simplify ...

Thanks again for your work on behalf of Canada's photographic community, and best wishes for a Merry Christmas! *I hope you find your holiday season restful.

Sincerely,
Michael Leenheer
New Light Photography - www.NewLightPhotography.ca (http://www.NewLightPhotography.ca)

[andrewr]

Quote[/b] (NewLight @ Dec. 20 2005,23:23)]I personally would like to see your index divided with two bold links - one saying "FIND A PHOTOGRAPHER" and one which says "RESOURCES FOR PHOTOGRAPHERS" ... or something like that. *Simplify, simplify ...
Hi Michael,

Thanks for your feedback. Your suggestion for the directory is one of the ideas I'm planning to implement in the New Year. I have already separated the photographer database from the other resources and you will be able to search for photographers based on specialities such as weddings, food, architecture, etc.

The pages aren't live yet, and I'm still working out some bugs. I would like members to be able to maintain and update their own listings, but I don't really know how to set this up. I would also love to be able to host small portfolios as well, but again with my limited web design and programming skills I can't figure out how to do this by myself. The best solution I can come up with is a link in each listing to PDF portfolio.

Anyone out there with skills in php and mysql who wants to pitch in and help before I go completely cross-eyed? *http://www.canphoto.net/iB312_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Cheers,

Andrew

[Digiteyesed]

Quote[/b] ]I would also love to be able to host small portfolios as well, but again with my limited web design and programming skills I can't figure out how to do this by myself.

Have you looked at Gallery? (http://gallery.menalto.com). It integrates with many popular Web site management and discussion packages, although I don't remember seeing Ikonboard on the list (maybe that's changed).

[andrewr]

Quote[/b] (Digiteyesed @ Dec. 24 2005,02:33)]Have you looked at Gallery? (http://gallery.menalto.com). It integrates with many popular Web site management and discussion packages, although I don't remember seeing Ikonboard on the list (maybe that's changed).
Thanks for the suggestion. I have looked at Gallery and probably every other option like it, but I have never been very impressed with any of them. They just look too cluttered and busy for my personal taste, and I think most clients looking to hire a professional photographer would agree. They might be great for photographer sites that are visited by other photographers, but I think commercial photography clients want to see something cleaner and simpler. They just want to view the images quickly in a nice clean, easy to navigate environment.

I'm may be wrong, but I also don't think any of these ready-made gallery options that integrate with discussion boards allow for searches based on photographer's specialities, location, etc.

I still appreciate the suggestion, please keep them coming.

Andrew

[Digiteyesed]

I can think of lots of other content management systems, but very few that are quota based, unfortunately. That's something you'll want otherwise you'll go broke hosting too many images.

I'll poke around and see what I can find for you.

[andrewr]

Quote[/b] (Digiteyesed @ Dec. 25 2005,01:46)]I can think of lots of other content management systems, but very few that are quota based, unfortunately. That's something you'll want otherwise you'll go broke hosting too many images.

I'll poke around and see what I can find for you.
What do you mean by "quota based"?

[Digiteyesed]

Where you can set a quota limiting the number of images/bytes uploaded into each mini portfolio.

[gr82bart]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for setting this site up in the first place. Here's a couple thoughts - just a brain dump, I haven't really thought any of it through:

1. A gallery system.
2. Sponsorship and even a 'Sponsors Announcements' section.
3. Somehow, if there was more activity from the nationally recognized professional organizations, this may help a bit. You'd think with all the copyright bruhaha in Canada, there would be a LOT more discussion it.
4. I don't know why there isn't more technical threads on here. Seems the amateurs and hobbyists are more eager to ask questions, seek new avenues in photography and help newbies out. Then again, maybe it's an American trait to help people more than a Canadian trait.
5. Links to schools? Somehow, there needs to be a way to get more Canadian students to get to this board. I find most go to the American sites.
6. Maybe forum sections that deal with various genres of photography - weddings, fashion, art, journalism, etc...?

Just some ideas.

I wish Canadian professional photographers were more into being a community, less secretive and into mentoring newbies like their American and European counterparts.

A guy can only dream.

Regards, Art.

[andrewr]

Quote[/b] (gr82bart @ Dec. 29 2005,16:02)]Hi Andrew,

Thanks for setting this site up in the first place. Here's a couple thoughts - just a brain dump, I haven't really thought any of it through:

1. A gallery system.
Thanks Art,

A members gallery is a priority for me as well, but as I mentioned I'm having trouble finding a suitable solution. I can't afford to hire a programmer to develop a custom solution, but I will keep working on it.
Quote[/b] ]
2. Sponsorship and even a 'Sponsors Announcements' section.
Could you elaborate? What do you mean by announcements? I planted some seeds with some potential sponsors last year and hope to pursue these opportunities more this year.
Quote[/b] ]
4. I don't know why there isn't more technical threads on here. Seems the amateurs and hobbyists are more eager to ask questions, seek new avenues in photography and help newbies out. Then again, maybe it's an American trait to help people more than a Canadian trait.
This doesn't actually surprise me. There are just too many other sites out there dedicated to technical discussions. Your nationality is irrelevant when discussing technical issues so it makes sense that people will go to the sites that are busiest. I started this site to discuss business issues and the technical forums where added later, but I never expected them to be very busy.
Quote[/b] ]
5. Links to schools? Somehow, there needs to be a way to get more Canadian students to get to this board. I find most go to the American sites.
There are schools listed in our directory. I assume you're not talking about web links, but relationships. I'm not sure how to accomplish this, but I'm pretty sure I don't have the time.
Quote[/b] ]
6. Maybe forum sections that deal with various genres of photography - weddings, fashion, art, journalism, etc...?
We already have separate forums for commercial and weddings/portraits. I'm not sure if there would be any benefit to breaking it down even further. In fact the weddings/portrait forum gets so little activity that I've been thinking about dropping it and focusing exclusively on the commercial side of the business.
Quote[/b] ]
I wish Canadian professional photographers were more into being a community, less secretive and into mentoring newbies like their American and European counterparts.
I couldn't agree more. I don't want to insult anybody here, but it certainly seems that most of our active participants, including myself, are still in the early stages of their careers. When I say early I mean the first 10 years. There are probably exceptions and I'm obviously generalizing, but I don't see any of the big, recognizable names on our forums. There are lots of those big names on my mailing list and I can assure you that I have sent them many, many emails about this site.

The American forums seem to be very different and it's not unusual to see some very big, well established photographers contributing to the discussions. I don't know why that doesn't happen here.

[gr82bart]

Quote[/b] (andrewr @ Jan. 02 2006,09:42)]Could you elaborate?Instead of the generic Google ads you have at the top of the forums, have sponsors - like Vistek, Henry's, Elevator, Headshots, Studio One, etc....

In fact, maybe the directory should only have banners from sponsors instead of the 'text' list that you have now.

I don't know, just a thought about commercial sponsorship.

Also, why don't we someone from Daymen Marketing or Vistek or Henry's or Elevator, etc... as regular posters here?

Quote[/b] ]What do you mean by announcements?Here, I was talking about CAPIC or PPOC announcements. Or even banner ads from them. Also no posters from these orgs?

Quote[/b] ]I assume you're not talking about web links, but relationships. I'm not sure how to accomplish this, but I'm pretty sure I don't have the time.Yes. As for relationships, maybe another forum for photo students. Again, it would require some marketing. Maybe a critique forum for students. Although I have seens some critiques that would make a student dump photography as a profession. No Simon Cowals allowed!

Quote[/b] ]The American forums seem to be very different and it's not unusual to see some very big, well established photographers contributing to the discussions. I don't know why that doesn't happen here.No answer here either. Just observations.

Regards, Art.

[andrewr]

Quote[/b] (gr82bart @ Feb. 04 2006,04:32)]Instead of the generic Google ads you have at the top of the forums, have sponsors - like Vistek, Henry's, Elevator, Headshots, Studio One, etc....

In fact, maybe the directory should only have banners from sponsors instead of the 'text' list that you have now.

I don't know, just a thought about commercial sponsorship.

My original concept for this site was that it would always be completely free for working Canadian photographers, assistants and full-time students. I also wanted to avoid banner advertising if possible for a variety of reasons. So instead of charging photographers and selling ad space, I developed the CanPhoto Directory and hoped that I could sell Enhanced listings to businesses that cater to professional photographers. The price is a very reasonable $59.95 per year.

I started by building an email list of several hundered services and suppliers, created free basic listings for them in the directory and then conducted email marketing for a year or two to tell them about their free listings and to try and sell them on the benefits of an Enhanced Listing.

I thought it would be an easy sell based on the low price, the reasonably high traffic that our site gets, and the fact that there was no other directory like ours anywhere else at the time.

Unfortunately, very few businesses showed any interest at all and I was only able to sell a few listings. Not even enough to cover the annual hosting fees for the site.

Now, I have no illusions about my abilities as a sales person, but I also don't have a lot of time to spend selling $60 listings or banner ads for $1 per 1000 impressions or per click (which is about the going rate these days), when I should be selling my photography services which pay a heck of lot more.

That's why I decided to give the Google ads a try. They are easy to set up and require no sales on my part. They don't generate a ton of money, but every little bit helps. I haven't given up on banner ads or sponsorship, and I'm actually in the process of testing a couple different ad servers and payment systems. So we might see more ads in the future.

Quote[/b] ]Also, why don't we someone from Daymen Marketing or Vistek or Henry's or Elevator, etc... as regular posters here?

I have never had a membership request from anyone like that, but maybe that's because one of the requirements for membership is that you must earn a portion of your income from photography. If someone from one of those suppliers wanted to participate without making blatant sales pitches all the time I might consider it.

Quote[/b] ]Here, I was talking about CAPIC or PPOC announcements. Or even banner ads from them. Also no posters from these orgs? You tell me? i have emailed many of their members to encourage their participation, but again with no response. (Geez, I'm starting to give myself a complex here http://www.canphoto.net/iB312_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif ) I personally think they might see a free site like this as a threat, but I really don't know.

Quote[/b] ] As for relationships, maybe another forum for photo students. Again, it would require some marketing. Maybe a critique forum for students. Although I have seens some critiques that would make a student dump photography as a profession. No Simon Cowals allowed!

I like the feedback Art, but again I have no answers. I have several teachers and faculty members from various colleges that teach photography across Canada in my mailing list and they have all been emailed many times about this site, but again no response. We also have lots of student members already and we already have critiques forums, but does anybody participate?

Quote[/b] ]No answer here either. Just observations.

Like I said I do appreciate your feedback and observations, and I hope you don't feel like I shot down all your suggestions. But I just wanted to point out all the things I have already done to try and attract attention and money to the site. So it's not like I've just been sitting back waiting for people to send me money or get involved in the site. I have been trying and I think I've been trying pretty hard. What's the name of that guy who spends all his time pushing a rock up a hill, only to have it roll back down again? That's certainly how I feel sometime, but I still think this site has a lot of potential and I'm not giving up yet.

Cheers,

Andrew

[sammylou]

hi! this is my very first post as I have only recently discovered this site and signed on as a member. Just wanted to let you all know I am a CAPIC member. So I will do my best to speak up and represent!

I am not a full general member but I am quite involved in all of the seminars and events the Toronto chapter holds. They are very good by the way.

I certainly cannot offer an explanation as to why CAPIC members are not posting here but I doubt it has anything to do with feeling threatened by a free site. If I HAD to guess, I suppose it might be that as CAPIC members they feel they already have a strong peer support and aren't motivated by a lack thereof to seek out other forums of support.

regards,

Samantha Allen

[andrewr]

Quote[/b] (sammylou @ Mar. 29 2006,16:53)]I certainly cannot offer an explanation as to why CAPIC members are not posting here but I doubt it has anything to do with feeling threatened by a free site. If I HAD to guess, I suppose it might be that as CAPIC members they feel they already have a strong peer support and aren't motivated by a lack thereof to seek out other forums of support.
Hi Samantha and welcome to the forums.

What you're saying makes sense with regards to the general membership, but I was referring more to the people in charge of things. The only time any of them have ever posted here was not to give advice or answer someone's questions, but instead they blatantly tried to recruit members and suggest that if people would just pay membership dues to CAPIC they would get all the answers they needed.

The last time someone from CAPIC posted here they actually told a member from Langley, BC that she would have received lots of answers if she would have attended a recent seminar here in Toronto. What kind of advice is that!?! And couldn't he have shared at least a tiny bit of that information here? It would have gone a long way toward improving business practices across the country, while at the same time promoting his organization without the blatant sales pitch.

I started these forums to give people a free place to share information while encouraging and supporting each other regardless of where they live in Canada, not just for people in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal who can attended paid seminars. There are no membership dues here and we do not exchange information for money. It may sound harsh, but I think that's where CAPIC and CanPhoto.Net differ, and I think they missed the boat when it came to exploiting the potential of the internet to build a community and improve business practices nationwide.

I have always said that anyone from CAPIC is more than welcome here, as long as they are willing to freely share infomation and ideas and contribute to the discussions without the sales pitches. There are places for that on this site and I have also told them that I am more than willing to help promote any of their events, even if they don't participate in our discussions

Cheers,

Andrew

[sammylou]

hmm. I am sorry to hear about your previous experiences with CAPIC organizers. I have to say I am at a loss to explain why they would take that attitude. Rest assured, I do not share it and while I will try to post notices of upcoming events and seminars for photographers, I certainly don't feel it is a place for me to push memberships on people.

cheers,

Sam